I want to clarify one thing I touched on in this piece. The ideology I was exposed to was circling on extreme-left tumblr circa 2015. The people saying "kill all men", "I wish men didn't exist", or similar were often (but not always) teenagers, college activists, or in moments of emotional distress. Some of the most vociferous advocates of these positions were trans women. I’m not an anti-feminist; I think that, especially in the face of the modern trans movement, feminists standing up for women's sex-based rights are doing something important. I just want everyone to understand that when this rhetoric is tossed around, devoid of nuance, it can be harmful to both young men and young women. To many autistic teenagers, men voluntarily making themselves eunuchs and women taking steroids and removing their breasts seems like a logical response to the narrative that human biology makes men inherent oppressors and women inherent victims. The radical feminist movement is the source of this message. I think the important work of fighting for women's rights can and should be done without spreading this harmful ideology to children and demonizing men.
Thank you for sharing your story! I came across Tumblr as an adult (thank goodness) and can absolutely confirm that there are extreme anti-male/ KAM views on there. I also think that Tumblr has a disproportionately large number of users who are traumatised, neurodivergent, disabled and young compared to similar sites. I think that plays a role in the politics, rhetoric and dogma expressed there.
You are unfortunately right that this message comes from feminism. The more I examine feminism, the more sexism I see. A movement that is really pro-woman would focus on rights, on rescuing important women from historical invisibility, and on making relationships between men and women better--because that is what the vast majority of women want. I am appalled at the effect this pseudo-feminism has had on you.
This was very painful to read. My heart goes out to you. Thanks for writing.
This is a bit like condemning socialism.....it depends what you mean by.... All most women want is a fair crack of the whip when it comes to careers and not to be subjected to rape, assault, groping and Rhohypnol.
I've suffered from mental health issues since I was 14. The last surgical intervention for people like me was the lobotomy. I kind of think both my and the author's journey could have been facilitated by the non invasive therapy of supportive friendships, which admittedly can be a difficult prescription to fill. My question is...at what point is this different from self harm? When are people just, you know, crazy? Is this a lobotomy kind of thing?
And if you already felt bad about yourself as male & had a fear about becoming a man - every negative post you saw would be more prevalent and make a more pronounced impact on you than neutral (or good) ones about or by men. We instinctually are attuned to danger for survival, some of us more so..... but the perception of danger and the direction in which the danger lies can be completely twisted. It's hard for parents to protect their children when so many forces align against them. We are all being harmed by this self annihilating ideology. Very good writing. 💗
I understand. So many women and for that matter, men, have suffered in relative silence all their lives and with the advent of "Me Too", lots of us exploded with pent up anger. It washed off the real culprits but caused a wave of guilt and anxiety among caring men. I apologise.
Thank you for sharing your story. It hits a nerve for me. It embodies my fears and exemplified why I have opposed this push to medical use children and encourage self-harm. I am so sorry this happened to you, and I wish I had known you to tell you you are loved, and you matter as a teenager. You are loved, and you do matter.
I’ve been screaming at the top of my lungs for the last 5/6 years to stop these crazy ideologies. Children rise to expectations, and we are setting cruel ones for all children. Conflating loose generalizations if masculine or feminine gendered descriptions in our language with actual gender/ sex to children is cruel and factually inaccurate.
I thought I should have been a boy until I was around 9, and was terrified still even when I entered puberty late around 14. I was masculine - liked the dirt, loved to wrestle and watch WWF, extremely athletic, played with the boys, hated pink. I would have bought this crap up one side and down the other.
Fortunately I was born in the 1980’s, so my tomboy traits were more or less celebrated by most, and I didn’t really like the people that bullied me about it anyway, though it was still lonely and I was frequently isolated (ADHD). I’m now a happily married mom of 2 kids I adore, and my love of activity is evident in my appearance though I know embrace my now long blonde hair and blue eyes and strong, feminine body (it took a long time to get comfortable in my skin).
I’m so sorry those out there like me weren’t there to save you, but please know by sharing your story you have saved countless children that the rest of us couldn’t. I will be thinking of you and hoping your tomorrow’s are filled with happiness and fulfillment.
I totally agree. Since I became aware of how much damage anti-male rhetoric does to All of us (and much to my daughter's anger), I counter any of her harsh statements towards men with a nuanced rebuttal. I had to deal with my own rape trauma to do so, and can say that I feel lighter and more balanced as a result.
Through my healing process I realised that my anti-man stance was a projection (of my trauma), and that instead of working within myself to heal I was sending it all out to 'men', and similarly, that when one group demonises another it is mass projection (of what they see as bad) onto another group (I know, this is psychology 101), often with devastating results.
I am in awe of how clearly you have written your experience here. Thank you.
...always with the talk of "oppression". Don't you get tired of having to blame others for your predicament or how you feel? Sometimes...you make bad choices and they end up effecting your life...that is not "oppression". Enough with the Child Ego State, and the blaming of others. At least this person chose to accept their responsibility for their choices, but gave a clear description of the internal & external forces that influenced their decision. Enough already with the "oppression" angle.
I read this with my lovely, sensitive 13 year-old son in mind. With ALL children in mind. Any adult that facilitates or condones the 'transition' of a child has forgotten what it is to be a child, never truly engaged with a child, or...has malign intent. I used to think Feminism was tiresome and didn't give it the time of day. These days I think it's malevolent. I'm so very very sorry you met not one adult, it seems, who just said, NO. And from me, a woman, to you, a man, men are every bit as 'good' and every bit as 'bad' and as everything-in-between, as women. The men I know are wonderful, and life would have been a lot less rich without them. The world NEEDS men.
Amen! I am so tired of the man hating! I love my father, my brother my husband and my son! It is honorable to be a man! When someone says, “he was a good man” that’s the shit!
Denial is one of the stages of grief. It's painful to look at the oppression of women and girls. Only think of what's happening to women and girls in Afghanistan at the moment, Please stop vilifying honest women who have the courage to look at the truth with a view to changing things for the better.
I understand where you are coming from and I agree, feminism is important. However, there is a lot of irrational hatred of men in certain online spaces. Tumblr was certainly one of them, back in the day when it was more popular. Just a constant barrage of how awful men are, how horrible it is to be a straight woman, and how all women should live in fear of every man ever. None of that nonsense does anything good.
Women are so oppressed that they're evacuated from war zones instead of being forced to stay and fight, they're evacuated first from natural disasters and accidents instead of being left to die, they're a quarter as prone to dying from violent crime (and their murders have a special name with aggravating consequences -femicide), they male more money right out of college, they're the majority of the people graduating from college, they have a complete hegemony over social sciences and humanities to the point the American Psychiatric Association is now telling therapists that masculinity is inherently bad and the source of allof men's mental distress.
Women are so oppressed that they can't be mistreated or mocked as a joke, that rape is considered a fate worse than death for women; yet society encourages men getting raped and lynched to death in prison, they even find it funny.
Men are disposable. They're not even heads in the family unit, since the family unit just doesn't exist anymore and middle- and low-income women have embraced (for worse) single parenthood over garbage feminist talking points. The role of men in modern society is to be units of production. That's it.
"I should note that men run the militaries that shoot male deserters, and force males dodging conscription back to war zones." (...) "I would say this is half for similar reasons as war zones and the other half is for sexist reasons - specifically the benevolent sexism I mentioned in my original comment: Treating women like delicate flowers who must be infantilized like children. Since feminism has improved respect for women, we see less of the “put the women on lifeboats and leave the men to drown on the Titanic” vibes in disasters. I didn’t see anyone leaving men escaping the World Trade centers to struggle while helping women first, unless the women needed special help."
They also run the same militaries that evacuate women first and don't force them to conscript.
You're being so disingenuous it's amazing. If the system discriminates against women it's because patriarchy, if the system discriminates in favor of women it's because patriarchy. This is cognitive dissonance and it's amazing how you can make two contradicting statements back-to-back, not even separated by a paragraph.
"Although I understand why women are still sometimes given priority in some disaster situations: sometimes their safety risks are greater. Such as in Haiti when lots of men took advantage of the chaos to go around committing mass rape on displaced women. In those situations, I would support evacuating women first."
And the majority of the casualties were men because they were assaulted, raped or left to die. Of course you and the feminist propagandists don't care about that because they can explain that away by claiming "patriarchy." At the end of the day men are disposable and women are poor victims.
"Men are much more likely to die from violent crime bc they are more likely to commit it (a gang member shooting another gang member, etc.)"
This reeks of racism. Yikes.
Men are more likely to die from violent crime, accidents and disease at any given point of their life. Just being mugged a man has a higher chance of being randomly stabbed than a woman, for instance.
"whereas the oerwhelming majority of violent crime happens to women inside the home, the majority from male family members."
That's a lie.
"Femicide is a word for violence when women are murdered in crimes where misogyny was a factor in the murder (so a brother murdering a sister for having sex with her boyfriend, or a man murdering his wife for leaving his violence)."
No, it isn't. Femicide is used whenever a woman is murdered.
"….but don’t at any other point of life"
Irrelevant. If it was men making more money right out of college (and at no other point in their lifes) the hordes of ideologues would use it as yet another proof of privilege.
"Ok is that good or something?"
Considering that college education is one of the first filters used by HR to consider new candidates and that college graduates make more money and have better careers than non-graduates; yes, it is good.
"Is that bc women are given preferential treatment or privileged above men? No. Women face an uphill battle and are generally viewed as less intelligent and were considered intellectually incapable to handle college until very recently."
Women are outperforming men at every single point of the education system and by every single measure of success.
"Women fought tooth and nail to be accepted to college."
So did most men. It took centuries for common men to be able to read, write, study and make a career for themselves instead of being forced to labour manually in the fields and fight in pointless wars for the benefit of some royal family.
"We just achieved it 60 years ago but still experience brutal discrimination when applying"
You say that but women make the majority of the people in college, they make the majority of the people graduating and they get special treatment when applying such as quotas and scholarships.
"Women largely lack leadership positions, esp tenured even in the social sciences and humanities."
That's not what "hegemony" means. Feminism is hegemonical in social sciences and humanities.
"There is also no structural discrimination against men in our patriarchal society, so men are not held back due to prejudice towards men."
Because feminism explains away any discrimination or disparity as a product of "patriarchy." It's unfalsifiable bullshit.
"As for the APA “telling therapists” masculinity is bad…I don’t even know what that means."
So you're misinformed. Go read about it instead of making claims about topics you don't know about.
"Do you mean the notion of “toxic masculinity?”"
Define non-toxic masculinity.
"Why the fuck would you want to mistreat women?"
Why the fuck would you want to mistreat men?
"Did your mask just slip?"" (...) "WOah wait a second, are you a rapist or rape apologist? Why are you upset people think rape is horrific? I feel like your mask is slipping a bit."
Ah, here it comes. The name-calling. That's all feminism has left when it's challenged.
"You have a really disturbing and skewed perception of reality. The only people I have ever heard laugh at prison rape are men."
I don't care about your anecdotes. Abuse towards men in prison is encouraged and cheered on by society to the point there's jokes about that on mainstream TV shows. There you go: mysandrist humor for some reason is accepted but mysoginist humor is sin. The funniest part is that you immediately jump to claim it's patriarchy's fault, somehow.
"You just said a lot of women view rape as worse than death."
No, I didn't. I'm making general statements here about western society as a whole, not a stupid "men vs women" thing.
"Citation needed. If you feel that way, go to therapy. Men dominate every hall of power in the world."
No, they don't. Men appear at the very top and at the very bottom of every hierarchy. A very small group of men dominate every hall of power in the world, the vast majority of us are hold abolutely zero power and are discriminated against in several aspects; yet we're supposed to hold all the responsibility for their actions and protection of every group.
"Ew so you are just a misogynist. I should have read your whole comment before wasting so much time responding to it. Men should never have been and do not deserve to be in charge of women within a family unit. What a repulsive thought. Disgusting."
It's repulsive that you think being head of a family unit means ownership. That's some deep-level brainwashing right there.
"Men being whores who whine about using condoms, then splurge out cum wads, then don’t bother to raise and care for the children that are the result, are AT LEAST half the reason poor women are so likely to be single mothers."
They should choose better partners, then.
"I would argue those women need female empowerment to teach them they deserve better than those men."
And you would be wrong because single mothers are increasing in numbers in both poor- and middle-income people.
"And many people’s family units fall apart due to poverty and the stuff that brings (drugs, crime, dead-end jobs, poor education) and not bc women (or men!) are failing or being stupid."
There's no other explanation. Single parenthood is awful in so many levels for both the parent and the child. You know where single parenthood is not increasing? Rich people. The people that are more objective-oriented, the people that are most succesful, the ones that arguably make the better choices are not succumbing to it.
"I think its so funny you think men are just “units of production” in modern societyW
That's what we are.
"bc all it takes men to actually BE valuable is doing what feminism argues for: (being valued by entering the home, being loving fathers, sharing financial responsibility with women, being equal partners)."
Except most young men were raised by women. Feminist women. In a time were feminism is hegemonical in teaching.
If men are not good enough by the ever-changing standards of feminism, they will never be. And it makes sense because feminism, just like any other ideology, has to be self-perpetuating so it can never be truly done.
It's also ironic that the only way, according to you, for men to be valuable and good is to do and be exactly what feminism claims they should be, while at the same time claiming that feminism is not an hegemony.
"domineering ape"
LMAO. "Head of the family unit" has nothing to do with dominance, unless you think single mothers are domineering apes too.
Nice rebuttal. Couldn't have done this better myself. It's amazing how much cognitive dissonance a lot of these 'feminists' I see in these spaces have. Especially when you want to hold feminism accountable for not doing anything to control it's radical groups. The excuse of them being fringe is flawed because it is centred in many institutions at this point and a lot of women hold high positions now as a result of it and advocate with such misandrist tone. Seeing criticism to the ideology as a 'men vs women' issue is so childish ("believe in everything I say women are suffering from or is the patriarchy") and makes sense to how the trans movement roots began.
AS a woman, reading such a clearly open misandrist comment by someone claiming to be a 'true feminist' while hurling baseless arguments and insults is truly disheartening. You and many other feminists like you are why both men and women are becoming more anti-feminist. I don't need to support feminism to support the rights of women. Feminism doesn't have ownership of that. It's an ideology created by women who only care about their own worldview and nothing else. It doesn't matter if you like it or not but a core part of your ideology is what led us to where we are now.
No, I'm sorry, but a criticism of the movement isn't a criticism of all women. Especially when a lot of women do not identify as feminists, and there are men that do.
I'm tired of women with different opinions being called misogynists constantly by other women. There is plenty of malevolence and hypocrisy in the movement to criticise, and it is is always deflected using that word.
The queer theory movement was started by women, not men. You sound more like you are blaming a whole gender in your post than she is.
What you are calling benevolent misogyny was used by actual early feminists to get women off the hook for murder. They were fighting the patriarchy by using supposedly patriarchal beliefs.
Why is it that putting women on a pedestal as morally virtuous and perpetual victims is misogyny but the same thing done to men is seen as male chauvinism?
Focault didn't create Queer Theory in the same way that Hegel didn't create Marxism. They just created the bases that other authors used to construct their ideologies.
Spare us your tropes you lying feminist. Misogyny this misogyny that, while men have essentially made every single aspect of being a woman easier and safer. Women now live in modern safe cities safer than any other time in history because of men. Childbirth and modern medicine was pioneered almost entirely by men(as was every science and discipline) to be the safest and most comfortable it ever has been. Childbirth used to be the most common natural cause of death of women behind old age. Women by and large do have it better than men. Men do worse than women in every single major aspect of well being. Education, health, lifespan, social benefits, and even risk of being the victim of a violent crime. You feminists are the scum of the earth because you see how horrible men are doing and seek to push them even further down in the name of empowering women, who are doing better than those 'oppressor' males. As if that was not enough you quite literally make up imaginary problems like the wage gap and pink-tax so you could keep your oppression card. You know maybe we should throw women like you out in nature and see how you fare without male oppression. Ungrateful wench. Funny how feminists only popped up when life got so easy.
Poor you. Your anger leaves you with a skewed perspective. Women know the debt they owe to modern medicine, a very great deal of which was forged by other women. You do know that women in science were permitted to study but not allowed to be awarded a degree, right up into the middle of the 20th Century ?
This exchange is exactly why some of us call ourselves anti-feminist. The whole premise of the ideology is that humanity is divided into warring subgroups who are locked in a zero sum game. Measuring human suffering into stacks then comparing them, reducing relationships and ambitions into power hierarchies. Doesn't matter if the whole structure collapses as long as your group got theirs. Some of us refuse to play this game at all and consider it harmful to society. Try thinking about our common humanity and what serves it.
We do and we are not your enemy. It's like being black, unless you are, you have no idea. What is this "whole structure" that will collapse ? Do you mean the family ? The workplace ? I have some sympathy. The ground is moving under you.
I didn't really need an evolutionary history lesson. It changes nothing. What happened in the past should inspire us to a different way, not more of the same.
You cannot simultaneously keep your oppression card and call yourself equal. Why are you whining that men didn't treat as equal when women themselves never managed to pull the same feats as men in anything? Had women managed to build their own civilizations where they were on top, it would be a different story. Your claim to equality is unsubstantiated, so you cannot claim oppression based on that. To the 18th century man, it seemed like common sense that women were different rather than equal to him. And admitting that women are different than men is not to say women are inferior unless like feminists, you insist on judging women by male criteria of success.
If you are a woman then you should be aware that women joining the ranks of men wasn't really an option until very recently. With the inventions of contraception, feminine hygiene products, and increased public safety. It is now possible for women to interact with the workplace in a much more practical manner. What really happened is that men built the modern world and once it became safe enough the feminists came out of the woodwork demanding the same rights as men. Also you are kidding yourself if you think that a 'great deal of it was forged by other women'. Sure you can come up with some names, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to men. And that goes for every science. I don't have anger towards random women, I have a problem with feminists and their toxic ideology. The idea that men oppressed women for nonsensical reasons purely because they are evil predators is conspiratorial fiction. Women always prioritized safety over freedom and they still do if you look at their voting patterns. You dont see women picking a dangerous Job where they wont get micromanaged. So to assume that women were oppressed purely because they didnt have the same freedom as men is nonsensical.
Oh, well there's a whole bucket of prejudice and misunderstanding. It would take a while to unpick this and since you didn't reason yourself into those ideas, I won't be able to reason you out of them, no matter how many examples and facts I parade before your unseeing gaze. You have a problem with feminists, because what ? No woman is the equal of a man ? Because that's what I'm hearing. "Women always prioritise safety over freedom". What does that even mean ? I'm sure you have some specific instance in mind but I don't recognise the trait among women I know. This sounds like sexual stereotyping to me. So, women "came out of the woodwork" to demand things like the vote, better pay, the right to own property; I think you'll find women have been making a noise about the right to be heard for centuries. Throughout the 17th Century and especially during and after the English Civil War, women ran businesses, wrote novels, preached from pulpits and demonstrated in the streets and followed their husbands in the army baggage train. About women not picking dangerous jobs - just being a woman is a dangerous job, by the way. As a marine biologist I was already an experienced diver with all the certification when I applied to join an elite team in a national organisation. The guy in charge said, diving is a dangerous business and not for young women. I expect he was looking after my best interests, like heck !
Being a woman is not a dangerous job, at least not as dangerous as being a man. Some women will be equal to some men, but women as a group are not equal to men as a group. That's how statistics work. There will be overlap but men and women evolved under different in-group pressures. We have different instincts and it will materialize as inequality outcome. That's why gender differences are present and clear even in the most egalitarian of societies.
And yes feminism was only ever mainstream in modern society. So yeah women did come out of the woodwork to demand the same rights men claimed for themselves. Women didn't fight in the American revolution so they could be free from the British, but they sure felt entitled to the fruits of the war. They never offered to sign up for the draft but they sure thought they should have the same rights as those who did.
There were no mainstream feminist movements in the 1700s, neither were there any mainstream feminists before that. You can only point to few figures and few events but nothing resembling a full fledged movement.
At the end of the day it was men who gave women rights, out of their own volition.
What a load of nonsense so you could feel better about your inability to compete with men historically and presently. When you saw women are equal in value do you mean women appealing to MAN made values of liberalism? That's what feminism is. Its a reactionary movement by women to claim the same things men have claimed for themselves while offering nothing in return. The only reason you got the vote is not because you deserved it or offered to join the draft, but its purely because men had that right.
Your arguments are weak and are pure whiny feminist drivel. Your baboon story is a singular incident with a low time frame reference. We know from history that matriarchal tribes which produce weaker males often get out-competed by male tribes which are stronger and more dominant. This is what happened to matriarchal tribes of prehistorical Europe and many such tribes in Africa. Life is survival of the fittest and if patriarchies produce stronger and more dominant civilizations then yes absolutely men deserve to be on top via natural law. If you don't believe in natural law then you are probably referencing some man-made ideology/values which is ironic.
Again stop claiming equality when you are incapable of competing with men. You cannot claim women are equally capable of leading, fighting, building as men while they have never done anything to prove that. Since you want to talk about unfiltered facts of nature why are you ignoring the fact that because you are weaker and vulnerable compared to men that you are in fact not equal to them? Violence is quite literally the supreme authority of nature. If men cant protect their tribe that tribe will die out. If men were not dangerous we would be extinct. The only reason men are the biggest singular danger to women is because MAN-MADE civilization protects you from every other threat. Another unpleasant fact is that female sexuality can and does offer an existential threat to many men. If a man is not certain his line is being continued then you are threatening his survival. Of course you as a woman don't care. But since you want to appeal to every organism's instinct to control its life and outcome, its only natural for men to want to make sure women aren't threatening their survival. Everything is fair game in nature so perhaps its better if you stick to man-made values rather than the law of the Jungle.
The idea that you deserve equal rights to men just because you say so is entirely your own subjective and fabricated value system. It is not grounded in any objectivity. The belief of completely self autonomy and freedom are masculine constructs from a man made ideology. Liberalism. You are just appropriating male values so you can have your cake and eat it too.
And yes MODERN feminine hygiene products are invented by men. Way to dodge the point. That includes contraceptives.
I imagine if the author of this piece had not genuflected at the altar of your ideology afterwards, you'd have a 'poor you' for him too. Feminism as it exists now is a cult, the kind which produces the very same cultish behaviour that irreversibly maimed the author. Intersectional ideas about patriarchy, post-genderism, male toxicity and similar, bandied around within the predatory 'support' groups described in the piece, all come directly from academic feminism and its shameless endeavours to demonise the average male. If you do not have any male in your life courageous enough to spell this out for you, then your life, too, has been maimed by feminism.
"My" ideology ? I haven't time for ideology and far from demonising the average male, I've always hung out with guys, never girls. I have no clue what academic feminism has been saying because I had a career in science. That doesn't blind me to the injustices I and other women experienced throughout our lives, nor the sexual violence most women encounter. I can see you're angry and that's because you feel victimised. Welcome to our world. You can see in my first post that I offered an apology for strident generalisations about male toxicity. I can assure you, without going into personal detail, that I have every reason to be much less forgiving. Anthropologist Theya Molleson remarked to me, the trouble with men is they are raised by women. Bears thinking about.
Modern cities are safer place for women than any other points of history especially at that scale. You ignore the point of scale because you are a hypocrite. Of course cities will be more dangerous than tiny tribes in an absolute sense, thats how scale works. But modern man made cities are infinitely safer than any cities in the past 10k years. The improvements in human mortality, crime rates, and general safety from both natural and man-made disasters speaks for itself. Again we really should throw women like you out in nature and have you fend for yourselves. And no you dont do fine in nature on your own. All those tribes are entirely dependent on men for their survival. If those men do not protect the tribe then they will be wiped out. Just because men in those tribes let women play around with social and religious rituals does not mean women are actually running things. Thats female delusion for ya
Schools are not man run systems, most schools are actually majority female administrations. And its no wonder that boys have been doing worse and worse. Women are incapable of raising boys as seen by the obvious difference between how boys fare under single mothers and single fathers. And compared to all-boys schools vs mixed gender schools. Academia IS biased against men, universities are 60% female and yet they still discriminate against men by providing women with exclusive scholarships and benefits and government supported programs. Give women an inch they'll take a mile. You see how you immediately rejoice at the fact that academia is majority female so you instantly attribute any female success to female virtue, yet all female downfalls are somehow a glass ceiling? And not to mention you somehow believe that men can by oppressed by men when it comes to violence yet its impossible that boys are being discriminated against in schools? Your own sexism is showing here, feminist.
Stop citing primitive hunter gatherer societies as some sort of exemplar for the civilized world. Tribal systems do not scale. You cannot run a city the way you run a tribe. The only reason they exist is because modern man-made civilization decides out of its own goodwill not to wipe them out. There is no virtue in being at the mercy of others.
You are ungrateful but I'd say being a deranged feminist is a bigger issue. What makes a system robust is constant competition for survival. thats the difference between patriarchy and secluded primitive hunter-gatherers.
One last thing about violence, men are still the more likely victims of random violence rather than women, so your useless attempt at victim blaming men for violence is also null. And life span metrics exclude infant mortality. So the reality you still do better in education, health, suicide, workplace fatalities, and government benefits/health. You get paid less purely because you decide to have babies. Women who do not have babies make as much as men. Having a baby is your own choice and men cannot be blamed for it. Stop whining so much, feminist.
Emily: To steal the author's language here, let me just comment that oversimplified assessments are unhealthy and disempowering. Rage solves nothing. Best, Helena (not the detrans helena)
there was a #metoo movement started by women for women. Alas many men are in the #notme movement - so busy being personally affronted that looking at the facts and stats of women's oppression is unbearable to them. But progress always comes when facts, ugly facts, are faced. Be courageous.
You are entirely right of course. Women come in all the varieties you'd expect in real people but somehow the fairy tales go on. The fight is to be recognised as just as complex as men, only different. Respected, heard and not seen as a symbol, a Disney princess or just a range of roles like mother, daughter, sister, carer.... we just have to be better at not blaming the men who didn't opress us.
You are a misandrist hiding your hate behind accusations of misogyny. You enjoy your hatred of men and promoting it don't you? Get a visceral thrill from every anti-male screed you unleash, every de-humanizing handful of dung you fling at masculinity?. Last time I checked, females have just as much agency as males, and pretending that all the ills of the female sex fall at the feet of males is pathetically femalacistic - If you are just as good as males, then you are, by definition, just as defective as males. I'm sorry you are injured/defective, but your contribution is negative, you bring nothing to the table but hate.
No. You really are misandrist and your comments show that to a T. Deny it all you want but we can all read your comments here. You clearly are still dealing with trauma.
"I, for one, am ABSOLUTELY NOT EVER going to apologize to some man for him losing his balls bc of crazy feminists on Tumblr curdled by hatred making him feel horrible. I'm a human being. I'm not responsible for the behavior or beliefs of every member of my sex on earth, JUST LIKE HE ISN'T."
First, your statement is clearly misandrist no matter how you try to slice it. This amount of vitriol is unwarranted and makes you put to be similar to those on tumblr who want men to die because they too believe men have an inherent anger towards women. Just like you do right now that makes men feel the same way. If you don't care that women groomed him and badly affected his mental health (queer theory is a branch of feminism), then why should he care that women are raped in a country he isn't in? A man who has never treated women that way is not responsible for their actions.
"If women gained 50% of governmental and private corporate leadership positions, and amassed 50% of the wealth in the world, and started committing 50% of the violent crimes in the world...then I'd apologize to him on behalf of man-hating feminists."
So all you want is power? God you really are lost. So if women treated men horribly based on their trauma from other groups of men, you don't care because since they are men they deserved it anyway/they should get over it because being a woman is harder... Yeah you are misandrist, plain and simple.
Seeing other women want to connect with men as 'female submissiveness' is why more women are becoming anti-feminist.
So what do you want me, a man, to do? No matter what BS faux-academic drivel you say can’t make me change the fact that I am just bigger and stronger than you. I’m not saying that as a threatening thing by any means, but there are some things men cannot change. The rest HAVE been changed. You want us to be on our knees eating your scraps? Please provide something of value that I, a man that gives fair and equal opportunity to women when I interview them in the workplace, respect on dates, and help in anyway I can provide, will help me have to stop hearing your nail on the whiteboard screech about how you’ve been wronged.
Just a tip: if you want real change and men to respect your plight, which I respect the plight of a woman, drop the words like misogyny and patriarchy — I’m telling you this because any of the men you describe see that word as how I (as a white male) see the words bigot, transphobic, homophobic — meaningless because they’re spouted at every corner.
Who or what "thing' are you responding to? I believe one can support and lift up women, reject misogyny and admire men who are good, decent and loving people. Good men who set an example are the ones we should be lifting up.
Too huge a topic, and I don't have time to write an essay in response. I'm not a misogynist, not in the least. Just anti-feminist. Amongst others, I advise you give Karen Straughan, Janice Fiamengo, Christina Hoff Sommers and Joanna Williams a listen. They say everything a lot more coherently than I ever could.
I agree whole-heartedly with you, Heloise. I resent feminism, that it presumes to speak on my behalf, only to corrupt and destroy society. You can keep it, Emily.
How exactly is feminism corrupting society ? Society changes to meet the needs and aspirations of its members. How do you destroy that by pointing out the inequalites females still encounter ? Sounds like man-talk to me.
I have read many detransition stories. Yours is one of the most moving. I just want to give you a hug for having been led down this path. Thank you for sharing this. Your voice is helping many families, be assured. I’m wishing you hope and healing.
Truly, the only word to describe my reaction by the time Tree describes his orchiectomy was horror. Abject horror.
Tree, I hope you find peace. Reading stories like yours over the past few weeks has turned me utterly against any form of accommodation for the gender activist movement. People struggling with dysphoria deserve our compassion, and our companionship. They need to feel love and community. Instead they are being enticed by the siren song of a cult. It makes me feel ill, and enraged, to imagine how many sensitive, gentle young men (I was once one myself) will find themselves crushed when they follow that song.
I read this story trying to think what I would say, as a gay man, to a teenage boy struggling with his sexuality. And I genuinely hope and believe I would say "It's OK, life is long and you have time to decide what you want. Don't let this consume you - there is so much joy to be had in life when you are young. Find people you love and trust, and talk to them about how you feel. And don't *ever* feel that you need to do anything that you are not yet ready to do. Time is on your side and you'll learn what you want as time goes on".
It seems to me that some of the older trans community's message to trans kids is some fucked up wish-fulfilment and that they want younger trans kids to transition earlier because they are resentful that they missed out on being happier in their younger years. It would be like a gay man saying to a young boy questioning their sexuality: "Well you better shout it from the rooftops and go and get with as many boys as you can!". No. Kids need time to grow and they need to know they are loved and supported, they don't need you telling them what you wish you had done! They'll figure out what they want on their own terms.
You are now a prophet. A truth teller in a time that cries out for prophets. You have assumed a great mantle of much weight and substance. Your true and spiritual greatness is here displayed. With free wills and rational minds that grasp universals that transcend and order the material world, we are spiritual beings with a material side, not material beings with a spiritual side. Your spirit roars sir and like knights of old you engage the destroyers all around us. You are heroic and a man. There is a Spirit at the core of being Who is Truth and Justice and Mercy . You are on His team and a much valued member. Again, thank you. May we all be inspired anew by your brave integrity and leadership. We are more than the sum of our parts.
My goodness. You've articulated this so well. I wish we as a society had done our job, firstly by not allowing the conditions where you felt so alone, and secondly by not pressing the tools for self-harm into your hands and telling you it was the only solution. I very much hope that things get better for you and wish you well.
Thank you Tree, for your courage, clarity, and brutal honesty. I know the damage cannot be undone, but may you grow new and beautiful branches through your words and your voice.
Thank you for sharing your story. That must've been so difficult to write. Many of the triggers you mentored rang true with me. My story is different to yours, but there are similarities. I'm worried about this for my own child who also fits the bill. Thank you for your bravery and speaking out. ♥️
The clarity and directness with which you speak is a gift. Something has been lost, but I am praying these wounds are healed for you, in ways no one can yet understand, and that in the meantime your voice strengthens. May you find completeness in unexpected but beautiful ways.
Psychiatry and Psychology have become full of crazy doctors. Instead of "first do no harm", they create harm. Rather than embracing reality, they encourages fantacy.
I am so angry for you! This is so well written and I so look forward to learning more of your story. I wonder if your mother will ever speak out? We must stop pretending people can change sex!
I want to clarify one thing I touched on in this piece. The ideology I was exposed to was circling on extreme-left tumblr circa 2015. The people saying "kill all men", "I wish men didn't exist", or similar were often (but not always) teenagers, college activists, or in moments of emotional distress. Some of the most vociferous advocates of these positions were trans women. I’m not an anti-feminist; I think that, especially in the face of the modern trans movement, feminists standing up for women's sex-based rights are doing something important. I just want everyone to understand that when this rhetoric is tossed around, devoid of nuance, it can be harmful to both young men and young women. To many autistic teenagers, men voluntarily making themselves eunuchs and women taking steroids and removing their breasts seems like a logical response to the narrative that human biology makes men inherent oppressors and women inherent victims. The radical feminist movement is the source of this message. I think the important work of fighting for women's rights can and should be done without spreading this harmful ideology to children and demonizing men.
Thank you for sharing your story! I came across Tumblr as an adult (thank goodness) and can absolutely confirm that there are extreme anti-male/ KAM views on there. I also think that Tumblr has a disproportionately large number of users who are traumatised, neurodivergent, disabled and young compared to similar sites. I think that plays a role in the politics, rhetoric and dogma expressed there.
You are unfortunately right that this message comes from feminism. The more I examine feminism, the more sexism I see. A movement that is really pro-woman would focus on rights, on rescuing important women from historical invisibility, and on making relationships between men and women better--because that is what the vast majority of women want. I am appalled at the effect this pseudo-feminism has had on you.
This was very painful to read. My heart goes out to you. Thanks for writing.
This is a bit like condemning socialism.....it depends what you mean by.... All most women want is a fair crack of the whip when it comes to careers and not to be subjected to rape, assault, groping and Rhohypnol.
I've suffered from mental health issues since I was 14. The last surgical intervention for people like me was the lobotomy. I kind of think both my and the author's journey could have been facilitated by the non invasive therapy of supportive friendships, which admittedly can be a difficult prescription to fill. My question is...at what point is this different from self harm? When are people just, you know, crazy? Is this a lobotomy kind of thing?
And if you already felt bad about yourself as male & had a fear about becoming a man - every negative post you saw would be more prevalent and make a more pronounced impact on you than neutral (or good) ones about or by men. We instinctually are attuned to danger for survival, some of us more so..... but the perception of danger and the direction in which the danger lies can be completely twisted. It's hard for parents to protect their children when so many forces align against them. We are all being harmed by this self annihilating ideology. Very good writing. 💗
I was on Tumblr during that time frame and I know exactly what you mean.
I understand. So many women and for that matter, men, have suffered in relative silence all their lives and with the advent of "Me Too", lots of us exploded with pent up anger. It washed off the real culprits but caused a wave of guilt and anxiety among caring men. I apologise.
I hear about all this love when you say you're trans but there sure is a lot of hate toward men
Thank you for sharing your story. It hits a nerve for me. It embodies my fears and exemplified why I have opposed this push to medical use children and encourage self-harm. I am so sorry this happened to you, and I wish I had known you to tell you you are loved, and you matter as a teenager. You are loved, and you do matter.
I’ve been screaming at the top of my lungs for the last 5/6 years to stop these crazy ideologies. Children rise to expectations, and we are setting cruel ones for all children. Conflating loose generalizations if masculine or feminine gendered descriptions in our language with actual gender/ sex to children is cruel and factually inaccurate.
I thought I should have been a boy until I was around 9, and was terrified still even when I entered puberty late around 14. I was masculine - liked the dirt, loved to wrestle and watch WWF, extremely athletic, played with the boys, hated pink. I would have bought this crap up one side and down the other.
Fortunately I was born in the 1980’s, so my tomboy traits were more or less celebrated by most, and I didn’t really like the people that bullied me about it anyway, though it was still lonely and I was frequently isolated (ADHD). I’m now a happily married mom of 2 kids I adore, and my love of activity is evident in my appearance though I know embrace my now long blonde hair and blue eyes and strong, feminine body (it took a long time to get comfortable in my skin).
I’m so sorry those out there like me weren’t there to save you, but please know by sharing your story you have saved countless children that the rest of us couldn’t. I will be thinking of you and hoping your tomorrow’s are filled with happiness and fulfillment.
Thank you. 🙏💓🙏💓🙏💓🙏
I totally agree. Since I became aware of how much damage anti-male rhetoric does to All of us (and much to my daughter's anger), I counter any of her harsh statements towards men with a nuanced rebuttal. I had to deal with my own rape trauma to do so, and can say that I feel lighter and more balanced as a result.
Through my healing process I realised that my anti-man stance was a projection (of my trauma), and that instead of working within myself to heal I was sending it all out to 'men', and similarly, that when one group demonises another it is mass projection (of what they see as bad) onto another group (I know, this is psychology 101), often with devastating results.
I am in awe of how clearly you have written your experience here. Thank you.
...always with the talk of "oppression". Don't you get tired of having to blame others for your predicament or how you feel? Sometimes...you make bad choices and they end up effecting your life...that is not "oppression". Enough with the Child Ego State, and the blaming of others. At least this person chose to accept their responsibility for their choices, but gave a clear description of the internal & external forces that influenced their decision. Enough already with the "oppression" angle.
Yawn
I read this with my lovely, sensitive 13 year-old son in mind. With ALL children in mind. Any adult that facilitates or condones the 'transition' of a child has forgotten what it is to be a child, never truly engaged with a child, or...has malign intent. I used to think Feminism was tiresome and didn't give it the time of day. These days I think it's malevolent. I'm so very very sorry you met not one adult, it seems, who just said, NO. And from me, a woman, to you, a man, men are every bit as 'good' and every bit as 'bad' and as everything-in-between, as women. The men I know are wonderful, and life would have been a lot less rich without them. The world NEEDS men.
Amen! I am so tired of the man hating! I love my father, my brother my husband and my son! It is honorable to be a man! When someone says, “he was a good man” that’s the shit!
Denial is one of the stages of grief. It's painful to look at the oppression of women and girls. Only think of what's happening to women and girls in Afghanistan at the moment, Please stop vilifying honest women who have the courage to look at the truth with a view to changing things for the better.
I understand where you are coming from and I agree, feminism is important. However, there is a lot of irrational hatred of men in certain online spaces. Tumblr was certainly one of them, back in the day when it was more popular. Just a constant barrage of how awful men are, how horrible it is to be a straight woman, and how all women should live in fear of every man ever. None of that nonsense does anything good.
Women are so oppressed that they're evacuated from war zones instead of being forced to stay and fight, they're evacuated first from natural disasters and accidents instead of being left to die, they're a quarter as prone to dying from violent crime (and their murders have a special name with aggravating consequences -femicide), they male more money right out of college, they're the majority of the people graduating from college, they have a complete hegemony over social sciences and humanities to the point the American Psychiatric Association is now telling therapists that masculinity is inherently bad and the source of allof men's mental distress.
Women are so oppressed that they can't be mistreated or mocked as a joke, that rape is considered a fate worse than death for women; yet society encourages men getting raped and lynched to death in prison, they even find it funny.
Men are disposable. They're not even heads in the family unit, since the family unit just doesn't exist anymore and middle- and low-income women have embraced (for worse) single parenthood over garbage feminist talking points. The role of men in modern society is to be units of production. That's it.
"I should note that men run the militaries that shoot male deserters, and force males dodging conscription back to war zones." (...) "I would say this is half for similar reasons as war zones and the other half is for sexist reasons - specifically the benevolent sexism I mentioned in my original comment: Treating women like delicate flowers who must be infantilized like children. Since feminism has improved respect for women, we see less of the “put the women on lifeboats and leave the men to drown on the Titanic” vibes in disasters. I didn’t see anyone leaving men escaping the World Trade centers to struggle while helping women first, unless the women needed special help."
They also run the same militaries that evacuate women first and don't force them to conscript.
You're being so disingenuous it's amazing. If the system discriminates against women it's because patriarchy, if the system discriminates in favor of women it's because patriarchy. This is cognitive dissonance and it's amazing how you can make two contradicting statements back-to-back, not even separated by a paragraph.
"Although I understand why women are still sometimes given priority in some disaster situations: sometimes their safety risks are greater. Such as in Haiti when lots of men took advantage of the chaos to go around committing mass rape on displaced women. In those situations, I would support evacuating women first."
And the majority of the casualties were men because they were assaulted, raped or left to die. Of course you and the feminist propagandists don't care about that because they can explain that away by claiming "patriarchy." At the end of the day men are disposable and women are poor victims.
"Men are much more likely to die from violent crime bc they are more likely to commit it (a gang member shooting another gang member, etc.)"
This reeks of racism. Yikes.
Men are more likely to die from violent crime, accidents and disease at any given point of their life. Just being mugged a man has a higher chance of being randomly stabbed than a woman, for instance.
"whereas the oerwhelming majority of violent crime happens to women inside the home, the majority from male family members."
That's a lie.
"Femicide is a word for violence when women are murdered in crimes where misogyny was a factor in the murder (so a brother murdering a sister for having sex with her boyfriend, or a man murdering his wife for leaving his violence)."
No, it isn't. Femicide is used whenever a woman is murdered.
"….but don’t at any other point of life"
Irrelevant. If it was men making more money right out of college (and at no other point in their lifes) the hordes of ideologues would use it as yet another proof of privilege.
"Ok is that good or something?"
Considering that college education is one of the first filters used by HR to consider new candidates and that college graduates make more money and have better careers than non-graduates; yes, it is good.
"Is that bc women are given preferential treatment or privileged above men? No. Women face an uphill battle and are generally viewed as less intelligent and were considered intellectually incapable to handle college until very recently."
Women are outperforming men at every single point of the education system and by every single measure of success.
"Women fought tooth and nail to be accepted to college."
So did most men. It took centuries for common men to be able to read, write, study and make a career for themselves instead of being forced to labour manually in the fields and fight in pointless wars for the benefit of some royal family.
"We just achieved it 60 years ago but still experience brutal discrimination when applying"
You say that but women make the majority of the people in college, they make the majority of the people graduating and they get special treatment when applying such as quotas and scholarships.
"Women largely lack leadership positions, esp tenured even in the social sciences and humanities."
That's not what "hegemony" means. Feminism is hegemonical in social sciences and humanities.
"There is also no structural discrimination against men in our patriarchal society, so men are not held back due to prejudice towards men."
Because feminism explains away any discrimination or disparity as a product of "patriarchy." It's unfalsifiable bullshit.
"As for the APA “telling therapists” masculinity is bad…I don’t even know what that means."
So you're misinformed. Go read about it instead of making claims about topics you don't know about.
"Do you mean the notion of “toxic masculinity?”"
Define non-toxic masculinity.
"Why the fuck would you want to mistreat women?"
Why the fuck would you want to mistreat men?
"Did your mask just slip?"" (...) "WOah wait a second, are you a rapist or rape apologist? Why are you upset people think rape is horrific? I feel like your mask is slipping a bit."
Ah, here it comes. The name-calling. That's all feminism has left when it's challenged.
"You have a really disturbing and skewed perception of reality. The only people I have ever heard laugh at prison rape are men."
I don't care about your anecdotes. Abuse towards men in prison is encouraged and cheered on by society to the point there's jokes about that on mainstream TV shows. There you go: mysandrist humor for some reason is accepted but mysoginist humor is sin. The funniest part is that you immediately jump to claim it's patriarchy's fault, somehow.
"You just said a lot of women view rape as worse than death."
No, I didn't. I'm making general statements here about western society as a whole, not a stupid "men vs women" thing.
"Citation needed. If you feel that way, go to therapy. Men dominate every hall of power in the world."
No, they don't. Men appear at the very top and at the very bottom of every hierarchy. A very small group of men dominate every hall of power in the world, the vast majority of us are hold abolutely zero power and are discriminated against in several aspects; yet we're supposed to hold all the responsibility for their actions and protection of every group.
"Ew so you are just a misogynist. I should have read your whole comment before wasting so much time responding to it. Men should never have been and do not deserve to be in charge of women within a family unit. What a repulsive thought. Disgusting."
It's repulsive that you think being head of a family unit means ownership. That's some deep-level brainwashing right there.
"Men being whores who whine about using condoms, then splurge out cum wads, then don’t bother to raise and care for the children that are the result, are AT LEAST half the reason poor women are so likely to be single mothers."
They should choose better partners, then.
"I would argue those women need female empowerment to teach them they deserve better than those men."
And you would be wrong because single mothers are increasing in numbers in both poor- and middle-income people.
"And many people’s family units fall apart due to poverty and the stuff that brings (drugs, crime, dead-end jobs, poor education) and not bc women (or men!) are failing or being stupid."
There's no other explanation. Single parenthood is awful in so many levels for both the parent and the child. You know where single parenthood is not increasing? Rich people. The people that are more objective-oriented, the people that are most succesful, the ones that arguably make the better choices are not succumbing to it.
"I think its so funny you think men are just “units of production” in modern societyW
That's what we are.
"bc all it takes men to actually BE valuable is doing what feminism argues for: (being valued by entering the home, being loving fathers, sharing financial responsibility with women, being equal partners)."
Except most young men were raised by women. Feminist women. In a time were feminism is hegemonical in teaching.
If men are not good enough by the ever-changing standards of feminism, they will never be. And it makes sense because feminism, just like any other ideology, has to be self-perpetuating so it can never be truly done.
It's also ironic that the only way, according to you, for men to be valuable and good is to do and be exactly what feminism claims they should be, while at the same time claiming that feminism is not an hegemony.
"domineering ape"
LMAO. "Head of the family unit" has nothing to do with dominance, unless you think single mothers are domineering apes too.
Nice rebuttal. Couldn't have done this better myself. It's amazing how much cognitive dissonance a lot of these 'feminists' I see in these spaces have. Especially when you want to hold feminism accountable for not doing anything to control it's radical groups. The excuse of them being fringe is flawed because it is centred in many institutions at this point and a lot of women hold high positions now as a result of it and advocate with such misandrist tone. Seeing criticism to the ideology as a 'men vs women' issue is so childish ("believe in everything I say women are suffering from or is the patriarchy") and makes sense to how the trans movement roots began.
AS a woman, reading such a clearly open misandrist comment by someone claiming to be a 'true feminist' while hurling baseless arguments and insults is truly disheartening. You and many other feminists like you are why both men and women are becoming more anti-feminist. I don't need to support feminism to support the rights of women. Feminism doesn't have ownership of that. It's an ideology created by women who only care about their own worldview and nothing else. It doesn't matter if you like it or not but a core part of your ideology is what led us to where we are now.
God, you are so right !
No, I'm sorry, but a criticism of the movement isn't a criticism of all women. Especially when a lot of women do not identify as feminists, and there are men that do.
I'm tired of women with different opinions being called misogynists constantly by other women. There is plenty of malevolence and hypocrisy in the movement to criticise, and it is is always deflected using that word.
The queer theory movement was started by women, not men. You sound more like you are blaming a whole gender in your post than she is.
What you are calling benevolent misogyny was used by actual early feminists to get women off the hook for murder. They were fighting the patriarchy by using supposedly patriarchal beliefs.
Why is it that putting women on a pedestal as morally virtuous and perpetual victims is misogyny but the same thing done to men is seen as male chauvinism?
Focault didn't create Queer Theory in the same way that Hegel didn't create Marxism. They just created the bases that other authors used to construct their ideologies.
Spare us your tropes you lying feminist. Misogyny this misogyny that, while men have essentially made every single aspect of being a woman easier and safer. Women now live in modern safe cities safer than any other time in history because of men. Childbirth and modern medicine was pioneered almost entirely by men(as was every science and discipline) to be the safest and most comfortable it ever has been. Childbirth used to be the most common natural cause of death of women behind old age. Women by and large do have it better than men. Men do worse than women in every single major aspect of well being. Education, health, lifespan, social benefits, and even risk of being the victim of a violent crime. You feminists are the scum of the earth because you see how horrible men are doing and seek to push them even further down in the name of empowering women, who are doing better than those 'oppressor' males. As if that was not enough you quite literally make up imaginary problems like the wage gap and pink-tax so you could keep your oppression card. You know maybe we should throw women like you out in nature and see how you fare without male oppression. Ungrateful wench. Funny how feminists only popped up when life got so easy.
Poor you. Your anger leaves you with a skewed perspective. Women know the debt they owe to modern medicine, a very great deal of which was forged by other women. You do know that women in science were permitted to study but not allowed to be awarded a degree, right up into the middle of the 20th Century ?
This exchange is exactly why some of us call ourselves anti-feminist. The whole premise of the ideology is that humanity is divided into warring subgroups who are locked in a zero sum game. Measuring human suffering into stacks then comparing them, reducing relationships and ambitions into power hierarchies. Doesn't matter if the whole structure collapses as long as your group got theirs. Some of us refuse to play this game at all and consider it harmful to society. Try thinking about our common humanity and what serves it.
We do and we are not your enemy. It's like being black, unless you are, you have no idea. What is this "whole structure" that will collapse ? Do you mean the family ? The workplace ? I have some sympathy. The ground is moving under you.
Your condescension is not necessary but illustrates the weakness of your argument. By "whole structure" I refer to society, of course.
I didn't really need an evolutionary history lesson. It changes nothing. What happened in the past should inspire us to a different way, not more of the same.
You cannot simultaneously keep your oppression card and call yourself equal. Why are you whining that men didn't treat as equal when women themselves never managed to pull the same feats as men in anything? Had women managed to build their own civilizations where they were on top, it would be a different story. Your claim to equality is unsubstantiated, so you cannot claim oppression based on that. To the 18th century man, it seemed like common sense that women were different rather than equal to him. And admitting that women are different than men is not to say women are inferior unless like feminists, you insist on judging women by male criteria of success.
If you are a woman then you should be aware that women joining the ranks of men wasn't really an option until very recently. With the inventions of contraception, feminine hygiene products, and increased public safety. It is now possible for women to interact with the workplace in a much more practical manner. What really happened is that men built the modern world and once it became safe enough the feminists came out of the woodwork demanding the same rights as men. Also you are kidding yourself if you think that a 'great deal of it was forged by other women'. Sure you can come up with some names, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to men. And that goes for every science. I don't have anger towards random women, I have a problem with feminists and their toxic ideology. The idea that men oppressed women for nonsensical reasons purely because they are evil predators is conspiratorial fiction. Women always prioritized safety over freedom and they still do if you look at their voting patterns. You dont see women picking a dangerous Job where they wont get micromanaged. So to assume that women were oppressed purely because they didnt have the same freedom as men is nonsensical.
Oh, well there's a whole bucket of prejudice and misunderstanding. It would take a while to unpick this and since you didn't reason yourself into those ideas, I won't be able to reason you out of them, no matter how many examples and facts I parade before your unseeing gaze. You have a problem with feminists, because what ? No woman is the equal of a man ? Because that's what I'm hearing. "Women always prioritise safety over freedom". What does that even mean ? I'm sure you have some specific instance in mind but I don't recognise the trait among women I know. This sounds like sexual stereotyping to me. So, women "came out of the woodwork" to demand things like the vote, better pay, the right to own property; I think you'll find women have been making a noise about the right to be heard for centuries. Throughout the 17th Century and especially during and after the English Civil War, women ran businesses, wrote novels, preached from pulpits and demonstrated in the streets and followed their husbands in the army baggage train. About women not picking dangerous jobs - just being a woman is a dangerous job, by the way. As a marine biologist I was already an experienced diver with all the certification when I applied to join an elite team in a national organisation. The guy in charge said, diving is a dangerous business and not for young women. I expect he was looking after my best interests, like heck !
Being a woman is not a dangerous job, at least not as dangerous as being a man. Some women will be equal to some men, but women as a group are not equal to men as a group. That's how statistics work. There will be overlap but men and women evolved under different in-group pressures. We have different instincts and it will materialize as inequality outcome. That's why gender differences are present and clear even in the most egalitarian of societies.
And yes feminism was only ever mainstream in modern society. So yeah women did come out of the woodwork to demand the same rights men claimed for themselves. Women didn't fight in the American revolution so they could be free from the British, but they sure felt entitled to the fruits of the war. They never offered to sign up for the draft but they sure thought they should have the same rights as those who did.
There were no mainstream feminist movements in the 1700s, neither were there any mainstream feminists before that. You can only point to few figures and few events but nothing resembling a full fledged movement.
At the end of the day it was men who gave women rights, out of their own volition.
What a load of nonsense so you could feel better about your inability to compete with men historically and presently. When you saw women are equal in value do you mean women appealing to MAN made values of liberalism? That's what feminism is. Its a reactionary movement by women to claim the same things men have claimed for themselves while offering nothing in return. The only reason you got the vote is not because you deserved it or offered to join the draft, but its purely because men had that right.
Your arguments are weak and are pure whiny feminist drivel. Your baboon story is a singular incident with a low time frame reference. We know from history that matriarchal tribes which produce weaker males often get out-competed by male tribes which are stronger and more dominant. This is what happened to matriarchal tribes of prehistorical Europe and many such tribes in Africa. Life is survival of the fittest and if patriarchies produce stronger and more dominant civilizations then yes absolutely men deserve to be on top via natural law. If you don't believe in natural law then you are probably referencing some man-made ideology/values which is ironic.
Again stop claiming equality when you are incapable of competing with men. You cannot claim women are equally capable of leading, fighting, building as men while they have never done anything to prove that. Since you want to talk about unfiltered facts of nature why are you ignoring the fact that because you are weaker and vulnerable compared to men that you are in fact not equal to them? Violence is quite literally the supreme authority of nature. If men cant protect their tribe that tribe will die out. If men were not dangerous we would be extinct. The only reason men are the biggest singular danger to women is because MAN-MADE civilization protects you from every other threat. Another unpleasant fact is that female sexuality can and does offer an existential threat to many men. If a man is not certain his line is being continued then you are threatening his survival. Of course you as a woman don't care. But since you want to appeal to every organism's instinct to control its life and outcome, its only natural for men to want to make sure women aren't threatening their survival. Everything is fair game in nature so perhaps its better if you stick to man-made values rather than the law of the Jungle.
The idea that you deserve equal rights to men just because you say so is entirely your own subjective and fabricated value system. It is not grounded in any objectivity. The belief of completely self autonomy and freedom are masculine constructs from a man made ideology. Liberalism. You are just appropriating male values so you can have your cake and eat it too.
And yes MODERN feminine hygiene products are invented by men. Way to dodge the point. That includes contraceptives.
I imagine if the author of this piece had not genuflected at the altar of your ideology afterwards, you'd have a 'poor you' for him too. Feminism as it exists now is a cult, the kind which produces the very same cultish behaviour that irreversibly maimed the author. Intersectional ideas about patriarchy, post-genderism, male toxicity and similar, bandied around within the predatory 'support' groups described in the piece, all come directly from academic feminism and its shameless endeavours to demonise the average male. If you do not have any male in your life courageous enough to spell this out for you, then your life, too, has been maimed by feminism.
"My" ideology ? I haven't time for ideology and far from demonising the average male, I've always hung out with guys, never girls. I have no clue what academic feminism has been saying because I had a career in science. That doesn't blind me to the injustices I and other women experienced throughout our lives, nor the sexual violence most women encounter. I can see you're angry and that's because you feel victimised. Welcome to our world. You can see in my first post that I offered an apology for strident generalisations about male toxicity. I can assure you, without going into personal detail, that I have every reason to be much less forgiving. Anthropologist Theya Molleson remarked to me, the trouble with men is they are raised by women. Bears thinking about.
Exactly this.
Modern cities are safer place for women than any other points of history especially at that scale. You ignore the point of scale because you are a hypocrite. Of course cities will be more dangerous than tiny tribes in an absolute sense, thats how scale works. But modern man made cities are infinitely safer than any cities in the past 10k years. The improvements in human mortality, crime rates, and general safety from both natural and man-made disasters speaks for itself. Again we really should throw women like you out in nature and have you fend for yourselves. And no you dont do fine in nature on your own. All those tribes are entirely dependent on men for their survival. If those men do not protect the tribe then they will be wiped out. Just because men in those tribes let women play around with social and religious rituals does not mean women are actually running things. Thats female delusion for ya
Schools are not man run systems, most schools are actually majority female administrations. And its no wonder that boys have been doing worse and worse. Women are incapable of raising boys as seen by the obvious difference between how boys fare under single mothers and single fathers. And compared to all-boys schools vs mixed gender schools. Academia IS biased against men, universities are 60% female and yet they still discriminate against men by providing women with exclusive scholarships and benefits and government supported programs. Give women an inch they'll take a mile. You see how you immediately rejoice at the fact that academia is majority female so you instantly attribute any female success to female virtue, yet all female downfalls are somehow a glass ceiling? And not to mention you somehow believe that men can by oppressed by men when it comes to violence yet its impossible that boys are being discriminated against in schools? Your own sexism is showing here, feminist.
Stop citing primitive hunter gatherer societies as some sort of exemplar for the civilized world. Tribal systems do not scale. You cannot run a city the way you run a tribe. The only reason they exist is because modern man-made civilization decides out of its own goodwill not to wipe them out. There is no virtue in being at the mercy of others.
You are ungrateful but I'd say being a deranged feminist is a bigger issue. What makes a system robust is constant competition for survival. thats the difference between patriarchy and secluded primitive hunter-gatherers.
One last thing about violence, men are still the more likely victims of random violence rather than women, so your useless attempt at victim blaming men for violence is also null. And life span metrics exclude infant mortality. So the reality you still do better in education, health, suicide, workplace fatalities, and government benefits/health. You get paid less purely because you decide to have babies. Women who do not have babies make as much as men. Having a baby is your own choice and men cannot be blamed for it. Stop whining so much, feminist.
Emily: To steal the author's language here, let me just comment that oversimplified assessments are unhealthy and disempowering. Rage solves nothing. Best, Helena (not the detrans helena)
Just like trans people are doing right now. Seems like the student did outdo the master eh?
there was a #metoo movement started by women for women. Alas many men are in the #notme movement - so busy being personally affronted that looking at the facts and stats of women's oppression is unbearable to them. But progress always comes when facts, ugly facts, are faced. Be courageous.
You are entirely right of course. Women come in all the varieties you'd expect in real people but somehow the fairy tales go on. The fight is to be recognised as just as complex as men, only different. Respected, heard and not seen as a symbol, a Disney princess or just a range of roles like mother, daughter, sister, carer.... we just have to be better at not blaming the men who didn't opress us.
You are a misandrist hiding your hate behind accusations of misogyny. You enjoy your hatred of men and promoting it don't you? Get a visceral thrill from every anti-male screed you unleash, every de-humanizing handful of dung you fling at masculinity?. Last time I checked, females have just as much agency as males, and pretending that all the ills of the female sex fall at the feet of males is pathetically femalacistic - If you are just as good as males, then you are, by definition, just as defective as males. I'm sorry you are injured/defective, but your contribution is negative, you bring nothing to the table but hate.
No. You really are misandrist and your comments show that to a T. Deny it all you want but we can all read your comments here. You clearly are still dealing with trauma.
"I, for one, am ABSOLUTELY NOT EVER going to apologize to some man for him losing his balls bc of crazy feminists on Tumblr curdled by hatred making him feel horrible. I'm a human being. I'm not responsible for the behavior or beliefs of every member of my sex on earth, JUST LIKE HE ISN'T."
First, your statement is clearly misandrist no matter how you try to slice it. This amount of vitriol is unwarranted and makes you put to be similar to those on tumblr who want men to die because they too believe men have an inherent anger towards women. Just like you do right now that makes men feel the same way. If you don't care that women groomed him and badly affected his mental health (queer theory is a branch of feminism), then why should he care that women are raped in a country he isn't in? A man who has never treated women that way is not responsible for their actions.
"If women gained 50% of governmental and private corporate leadership positions, and amassed 50% of the wealth in the world, and started committing 50% of the violent crimes in the world...then I'd apologize to him on behalf of man-hating feminists."
So all you want is power? God you really are lost. So if women treated men horribly based on their trauma from other groups of men, you don't care because since they are men they deserved it anyway/they should get over it because being a woman is harder... Yeah you are misandrist, plain and simple.
Seeing other women want to connect with men as 'female submissiveness' is why more women are becoming anti-feminist.
So what do you want me, a man, to do? No matter what BS faux-academic drivel you say can’t make me change the fact that I am just bigger and stronger than you. I’m not saying that as a threatening thing by any means, but there are some things men cannot change. The rest HAVE been changed. You want us to be on our knees eating your scraps? Please provide something of value that I, a man that gives fair and equal opportunity to women when I interview them in the workplace, respect on dates, and help in anyway I can provide, will help me have to stop hearing your nail on the whiteboard screech about how you’ve been wronged.
Just a tip: if you want real change and men to respect your plight, which I respect the plight of a woman, drop the words like misogyny and patriarchy — I’m telling you this because any of the men you describe see that word as how I (as a white male) see the words bigot, transphobic, homophobic — meaningless because they’re spouted at every corner.
Who or what "thing' are you responding to? I believe one can support and lift up women, reject misogyny and admire men who are good, decent and loving people. Good men who set an example are the ones we should be lifting up.
Too huge a topic, and I don't have time to write an essay in response. I'm not a misogynist, not in the least. Just anti-feminist. Amongst others, I advise you give Karen Straughan, Janice Fiamengo, Christina Hoff Sommers and Joanna Williams a listen. They say everything a lot more coherently than I ever could.
I agree whole-heartedly with you, Heloise. I resent feminism, that it presumes to speak on my behalf, only to corrupt and destroy society. You can keep it, Emily.
How exactly is feminism corrupting society ? Society changes to meet the needs and aspirations of its members. How do you destroy that by pointing out the inequalites females still encounter ? Sounds like man-talk to me.
Thank you. I will. "Feminist" is a catch-all term of course. I won't write an essay either ....
I have read many detransition stories. Yours is one of the most moving. I just want to give you a hug for having been led down this path. Thank you for sharing this. Your voice is helping many families, be assured. I’m wishing you hope and healing.
Thank you for sharing. Your story is powerful. Looking forward to reading more of your thoughts and experience.
I'm so horrified at what these liars, the doctors who acted as if they were "helping" you, did when you went to them in pain. Horrified and angry.
Truly, the only word to describe my reaction by the time Tree describes his orchiectomy was horror. Abject horror.
Tree, I hope you find peace. Reading stories like yours over the past few weeks has turned me utterly against any form of accommodation for the gender activist movement. People struggling with dysphoria deserve our compassion, and our companionship. They need to feel love and community. Instead they are being enticed by the siren song of a cult. It makes me feel ill, and enraged, to imagine how many sensitive, gentle young men (I was once one myself) will find themselves crushed when they follow that song.
I read this story trying to think what I would say, as a gay man, to a teenage boy struggling with his sexuality. And I genuinely hope and believe I would say "It's OK, life is long and you have time to decide what you want. Don't let this consume you - there is so much joy to be had in life when you are young. Find people you love and trust, and talk to them about how you feel. And don't *ever* feel that you need to do anything that you are not yet ready to do. Time is on your side and you'll learn what you want as time goes on".
It seems to me that some of the older trans community's message to trans kids is some fucked up wish-fulfilment and that they want younger trans kids to transition earlier because they are resentful that they missed out on being happier in their younger years. It would be like a gay man saying to a young boy questioning their sexuality: "Well you better shout it from the rooftops and go and get with as many boys as you can!". No. Kids need time to grow and they need to know they are loved and supported, they don't need you telling them what you wish you had done! They'll figure out what they want on their own terms.
@Marco Z., thank you for your comment. Mirrors my feelings (though I'm a woman and a mother).
Thank you for sharing your story and your pain so poignantly. Please keep on writing, you have such a powerful voice.
You are now a prophet. A truth teller in a time that cries out for prophets. You have assumed a great mantle of much weight and substance. Your true and spiritual greatness is here displayed. With free wills and rational minds that grasp universals that transcend and order the material world, we are spiritual beings with a material side, not material beings with a spiritual side. Your spirit roars sir and like knights of old you engage the destroyers all around us. You are heroic and a man. There is a Spirit at the core of being Who is Truth and Justice and Mercy . You are on His team and a much valued member. Again, thank you. May we all be inspired anew by your brave integrity and leadership. We are more than the sum of our parts.
My goodness. You've articulated this so well. I wish we as a society had done our job, firstly by not allowing the conditions where you felt so alone, and secondly by not pressing the tools for self-harm into your hands and telling you it was the only solution. I very much hope that things get better for you and wish you well.
Hi, thanks for sharing part of your story. I think we could do with hearing more from young men who transitioned/detransitioned.
Thank you Tree, for your courage, clarity, and brutal honesty. I know the damage cannot be undone, but may you grow new and beautiful branches through your words and your voice.
Thank you. What drove you to transition is what is driving so many of our sons. I am so very sorry. Your courage to share means so much.
Thank you for sharing your story. That must've been so difficult to write. Many of the triggers you mentored rang true with me. My story is different to yours, but there are similarities. I'm worried about this for my own child who also fits the bill. Thank you for your bravery and speaking out. ♥️
thank you. this is moving (and frightening).
The clarity and directness with which you speak is a gift. Something has been lost, but I am praying these wounds are healed for you, in ways no one can yet understand, and that in the meantime your voice strengthens. May you find completeness in unexpected but beautiful ways.
Psychiatry and Psychology have become full of crazy doctors. Instead of "first do no harm", they create harm. Rather than embracing reality, they encourages fantacy.
I am so angry for you! This is so well written and I so look forward to learning more of your story. I wonder if your mother will ever speak out? We must stop pretending people can change sex!